Session Start (freenode:#etech): Tue Mar 15 15:12:36 2005
[15:12] *** Initial topic: (Link: http://wiki.oreillynet.com/etech05/index.cgi)http://wiki.oreillynet.com/etech05/index.cgi
[15:12] *** #etech: striatic oedipa Earthman seanbonner marksimpkins NelsonM holgate noidfish joho deitynoir rich_gibson SebPaquet zzgavin rajiv pixelcort cheesebikini michaelhilton boris knauer Knekk beepbeep_ blech KW markp bkdelong JayF buridan imajes_ jcgregorio cygmund termie rajiv|work lyza Mutiny ilan xicubed _dav crysflame JimH Netminder _adam_gfx adamhill Greg___ esigler 
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[15:12] *** #etech was created on Sat Mar 12 18:22:27 2005.
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[15:17] NelsonM: artificial archaeobiology
[15:19] NelsonM: Art Burks was an awesome guy
[15:19] NelsonM: er, *is*
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[15:22] _dav: anyone blogging dyson's talk?
[15:22] Earthman: Great talk
[15:22] NelsonM: is he writing a book on this material?
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[15:22] marksimpkins: he should..
[15:23] NelsonM: I hope that's what all this research is for :-)
[15:23] marksimpkins: rael understatement...
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[15:24] aeden: 36 *is* old ;-)
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[15:24] aeden: jk
[15:24] marksimpkins: grrr
[15:24] aeden: marksimpkins what are you "grr"ing about?
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[15:25] marksimpkins: i'm 34 so less of the old :)
[15:25] aeden: heh
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[15:26] Earthman: (Link: http://adam.typepad.com/impossiblethings/2004/04/)http://adam.typepad.com/impossiblethings/2004/04/
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[15:26] aeden: hmm..automated playback over Skype for spam
[15:26] aeden: that'll suck
[15:27] NelsonM: as soon as Apple gets 5% market share, we'll have Apple viruses
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[15:27] pixelcort: Yeah, because Mac OS X is just /loaded/ with bugs and buffer overflows.
[15:28] markp: ahem, macs have always had cooler viruses than pcs
[15:28] aeden: hah!
[15:28] cheesebikini: also the spam meme that encourages ppl to spam works like an organism
[15:28] markp: anyone old enough to remember wdef?
[15:28] markp: it infected you just by inserting an infected floppy
[15:28] aeden: yes!
[15:28] markp: anyone old enough to remember floppies?
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[15:29] joho: raise your hand if you owned a kaypro
[15:29] * Earthman worked on a Mac with a 5-1/4" floppy
[15:29] aeden: Earthman I think we did that in 5th grade :-D
[15:29] jcgregorio: sorry, a vic-20 was my first computer
[15:29] michaelhilton: i used to have a computer with no HDD, just two floppy drives
[15:29] cygmund: I had a Kaypro II
[15:29] Earthman: twiggy
[15:29] joho: what's his topic?
[15:29] aeden: my first computer ran VMS
[15:30] marksimpkins: ZX81 tape rules
[15:30] dviner: how to stop an arms race.
[15:30] aeden: thanks to the University of Miami
[15:30] bkdelong: hehehe. Apple II here. :O
[15:30] pjw: MITS ALTAIR'S RULE
[15:30] aeden: my first experience with Usenet pr0n was on VMS
[15:30] aeden: how's that for whacked?
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[15:30] * markp is sorry i brought it up
[15:30] aeden: heh
[15:30] bkdelong: I do have an Athena machine sitting next to me.
[15:31] aeden: I suppose I should pay attention to the speaker
[15:31] aeden: he's quite funny
[15:31] cygmund: Cory's blogging the Dyson talk, of course: (Link: http://www.boingboing.net/2005/03/15/etech_notes_von_neum.html)http://www.boingboing.net/2005/03/15/etech_notes_von_neum.html
[15:31] jcgregorio: ooh, athena, I programmed on those
[15:31] bkdelong: Well, this is a SunBlade 1100 running Athena rather.
[15:32] jcgregorio: I wrote an app that distributed applications across a network of athena machines
[15:32] dviner: no firewall == no virus ?
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[15:33] aeden: hmm...food time
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[15:33] Earthman: Off to lunch!
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[15:33] _dav: thanks, cygmund 
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[15:33] _dav: off to ORA salad!
[15:33] bkdelong: The mass exodus to lunch
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[15:51] nlowell: lively conversation?
[15:51] gustaf: not from what I've seen
[15:51] gustaf: but I connected 5 minutes ago... 
[15:52] Knekk: people are at lunch now
[15:52] Knekk: most people took off.
[15:52] nlowell: ah
[15:52] nlowell: PST .. of course 
[15:52] nlowell: well, what'll we say about them while they're gone :D
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[15:53] Knekk: nothing nice, of course.
[15:54] nlowell: well, YA .. we can be nice when they're here :D
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[15:59] jcgregorio: so..., now we know who isn't at ETech
[16:00] Suw: ha ha ha
[16:00] Knekk: wish I were
[16:00] Suw: yeah
[16:00] gustaf: m3 t00
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[16:01] gustaf: ;-)
[16:01] striatic: i'm glad i'm not there
[16:02] striatic: if i was, i wouldn't be enjoying the freezing cold toronto weather
[16:02] _dav: need a PRoP: (Link: http://www.prop.org/)http://www.prop.org/
[16:02] _dav: we could all chip in and then take turns being there
[16:02] nlowell: well, this is as close as *I* will ever get
[16:03] boris: striatic: freezing cold? we just hit +2 in montreal today .. yay!
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[16:04] Suw: i was there by proxy for a bit, through km's webcam
[16:04] Suw: aaah, a hint of such joys as shall not be mine
[16:04] Suw: this year
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[16:08] *** Initial topic: (Link: http://wiki.oreillynet.com/etech05/index.cgi)http://wiki.oreillynet.com/etech05/index.cgi
[16:08] *** #etech: striatic euansemple Suw hod nlowell NiallKennedy gustaf Rafe Jibbler oedipa rich_gibson rajiv boris Knekk beepbeep_ blech KW buridan imajes_ jcgregorio cygmund termie rajiv|work lyza Mutiny ilan xicubed _dav crysflame JimH Netminder _adam_gfx adamhill Greg___ 
[16:08] *** #etech was created on Sat Mar 12 18:22:27 2005.
[16:09] nlowell: sssshhh .. he's back
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[16:11] nlowell: i didn't think he'd EVER leave
[16:12] striatic: hm?
[16:13] nlowell: joke
[16:13] striatic: gotcha'
[16:13] nlowell: this place better liven up soon or I'll start TELLIN some :D
[16:13] nlowell: and that could get very ugly 
[16:13] crysflame: bah
[16:13] striatic: very
[16:13] striatic: hm
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[16:13] striatic: trillian isn't liking my icq connection very much right now
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[16:14] striatic: not that, you know, i have more than two icq contacts
[16:14] nlowell: ah, you need to dump ICQ
[16:14] nlowell: the new TOS says AOL owns your chat
[16:14] striatic: i know
[16:14] striatic: i primarily used aim
[16:14] nlowell: ack
[16:14] striatic: not by choice
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[16:15] nlowell: ya .. i hear ya
[16:15] * striatic polishes shiny jabber account
[16:15] striatic: i'd much rather have them all on that
[16:15] striatic: fat chance of that ever happening
[16:16] striatic: so i guess it is going to have to be yahoo
[16:16] Knekk: have you looked at BitlBee?
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[16:16] striatic: no
[16:16] Knekk: IRC -> IM gateway
[16:16] Knekk: you can use your IRC client for all your IM needs
[16:16] * Knekk uses irssi as IRC client, and BitlBee to keep all his IM accounts in one place.
[16:16] nlowell: i like jabber too
[16:17] striatic: well, unless my mom will use it, it is useless
[16:17] adamhill: and if the AOL TOS was interpreted to say the moon is made of green cheese by /. , the geeks would be lining up with their fucking crackers
[16:17] nlowell: i got some ritz! :D
[16:17] adamhill: and I got a bridge in Brooklyn
[16:17] nlowell: but GETTING to the moon is a lot harder to get to
[16:18] nlowell: the supermarket is much closer and i think i already have some green cheese in it
[16:18] Knekk: striatic: don't need your mom to use it. You have an IRC client right? you can use that for IM.
[16:19] Knekk: strcheck out bitlbee.org
[16:19] Suw: adamhill! 
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[16:19] adamhill: hola suw
[16:19] striatic: right .. but it what will she use?
[16:19] Suw: how goes? 
[16:19] nlowell: the problem is that eventually the chat gets posted on ICQ/AOL
[16:19] adamhill: no much
[16:19] Knekk: striatic: she can use whatever she wants.
[16:20] adamhill: +t
[16:20] striatic: what if she wants to use aim?
[16:20] striatic: then at some point, i'm using their servers
[16:20] Knekk: striatic: with Bitlbee you can connect to AIM, YIM, MSN, Jabber and others
[16:20] striatic: no matter what client or gateway i'm using
[16:20] Knekk: striatic: so you want to avoid their servers?
[16:20] nlowell: but his MOM is the bottleneck 
[16:20] striatic: yes
[16:20] Knekk: ah, I missed that part of the convo, sorry
[16:20] nlowell: :D
[16:21] striatic: i already have a multi IM client
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[16:21] striatic: actually, i have a couple of them ..
[16:21] nlowell: so .. you dont think AOL really owns the chat adamhill?
[16:21] nlowell: or claims to?
[16:21] striatic: although, i think the aim TOS issue is probably a mountain/molehill thing
[16:21] striatic: i doubt that it is legally defensible
[16:22] Suw: not sure they could enforce it
[16:22] nlowell: i'm not sure they'd have to 
[16:22] nlowell: once they take the content and publish it, the damage is done
[16:22] adamhill: AOL's pres/CEO disavowed the TOS applied to chat to the press
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[16:22] nlowell: did he offer to sell a bridge with it?
[16:22] adamhill: only applied to communities, which has always been the case
[16:22] striatic: they should clarify the language if that's what they really mean
[16:23] nlowell: the TOS doesn't dis-aggregate
[16:23] striatic: and even if it only applies to forums, it is still ridiculous
[16:23] adamhill: it was a cut-n-paste
[16:23] nlowell: what was a cut-n-paste?
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[16:25] nlowell: (Link: http://www.aim.com/tos/tos.adp)http://www.aim.com/tos/tos.adp <-- my source .. this is a cut-n-paste?
[16:26] striatic: arg ..
[16:26] adamhill: the TOS change, 10 dollars someone cut some boilerplate from someplace else
[16:26] striatic: why can't we all just live in a jabber utopia?
[16:27] nlowell: now THAT i can believe
[16:27] striatic: and dance through the jabber grass collect cute little jabber faeries in cute little jabber cups?
[16:27] nlowell: and they're backpedalling to beat hell
[16:27] nlowell: but what's there is what's there
[16:27] nlowell: oooo.. no faeries
[16:27] nlowell: the neo-cons will git cha
[16:28] pixelcort: Now might be a good time to insight panic in AIM users and get them all to exodus to an open platform like Jabber/XMPP.
[16:28] gustaf: never happen
[16:28] nlowell: and it'll have to be a Manly Dance or they'll nail yer fer promoting un-Family Values :D
[16:28] nlowell: i like it pix! :D
[16:28] pixelcort: The same theory that keeps everyone in can also be used to get everyone out.
[16:28] striatic: jabber needs to get unified and accessible like mozilla is now
[16:29] striatic: one click, install and you're done
[16:29] nlowell: ya .. jabzilla
[16:29] pixelcort: If people see their friends move away, they'll move away too. Amazing social phenomenon.
[16:29] nlowell: friends?!
[16:29] pixelcort: s/friends/buddies/
[16:29] nlowell: i remember those .. long time ago .. ?
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[16:29] nlowell: people that like ya and talk to ya and such?
[16:30] * nlowell is teasing.
[16:30] striatic: wow
[16:30] striatic: bloglines has improved since the last time i tried it out
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[16:32] adamhill: bloglines is evil
[16:32] striatic: evil?
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[16:32] striatic: well
[16:32] adamhill: they hammer servers, have no idea what 'back off' means
[16:32] striatic: at least that isn't a capital E
[16:32] adamhill: ok, bloglines coders are stupid :)
[16:32] pixelcort: I guess I'll have to say it again: polling is bad.
[16:33] nlowell: so .. what's emerging?
[16:33] pixelcort: The Buzz Game is cool. (Link: http://buzz.research.yahoo.com/)http://buzz.research.yahoo.com/
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[16:33] jseng: ch
[16:33] jseng: er
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[16:34] gustaf: hey Ewan_ 
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[16:35] jbond: pixelcourt: even with all the tricks? 304 etc.
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[16:36] nlowell: is lunch over? or have more people just checked their feeds?
[16:36] Ewan_: Hey gu
[16:36] Ewan_: staf
[16:36] Ewan_: (Link: http://www.symbiandiaries.com/crow)http://www.symbiandiaries.com/crow Crow's New Blog
[16:37] pixelcort: jbond: What tricks?
[16:37] FrankK: nice Ewan
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[16:37] jseng: network is slow :-(
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[16:38] striatic: does anyone know if there's a webservice that will read rss feeds and convert them into emails it will send to a list?
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[16:38] jseng: rss2mail
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[16:38] jbond: pixelcourt: backing off the poll time if the data doesn't change. Using etag. 
[16:38] pixelcort: For rss2mail, you'd have to set it up to run periodically somewhere.
[16:38] pixelcort: Oh, regarding polling.
[16:39] striatic: will that let the recipients block the incoming mail?
[16:39] pixelcort: Yes, that all helps reduce polling problems, but some would like their RSS live.
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[16:39] pixelcort: Also, this Slashdot-banning-ETech thing is annoying.
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[16:40] jbond: slashdot coding sucks. I regularly get banned at home because I'm behind the ISPs transparent http proxy shared with 1000s
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[16:40] pixelcort: I can understand them not wanting to same redundant data to the same address.
[16:40] jbond: They make no attempt to get the real remote IP
[16:41] pixelcort: If people are running NAT, they should be running an HTTP cache, too.
[16:41] _dav: you should be ssh-tunneling your web traffic anyhow
[16:41] _dav: etech's always got plenty of ettercaps andd the like running
[16:41] crysflame: oh yeah
[16:41] jbond: But if you use Pub-Sub instead of polling then you put considerable effort on the server side
[16:42] pixelcort: Not terribly considerable. The spammers send messages in bulk all the time.
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[16:43] crysflame: if all the rss reader people would just commit to sharing their downloaded feed content by rendezvous with etags, then clients could generate and check the etag at the server
[16:43] crysflame: using a specially crafted etag algorithm, namely that which apache uses
[16:43] pixelcort: And for PubSub we would only send out a few bytes, simply "Hey! This URL changed. Come an' get it!"
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[16:43] jbond: It's a political problem now (wasn't it always with RSS)
[16:44] nlowell: is there any other kind of problem?
[16:44] jbond: "If everybody coded properly"
[16:44] jbond: We'd never get anything done
[16:44] * crysflame nods
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[16:45] Schuyler: so um. is etech any good this year?
[16:45] buridan: no
[16:45] jseng: so-so
[16:46] pixelcort: It is 86.7% good.
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[16:47] SDEtech99: rss and foaf were a lot more exciting last year
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[16:47] jbond: FOAF. Exciting. Right.
[16:47] jseng: lol
[16:47] nlowell: does foaf DO anything yet?
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[16:48] pixelcort: I was hoping for FOAF trust metrics to no avail.
[16:48] SDEtech99: no, but last yearit LOOKED like it could
[16:48] SDEtech99: now we're all jaded
[16:48] nlowell: rofl
[16:48] jbond: FOAF is a google scale problem. And Norvig thinks there isn't any metadata on the web.
[16:48] adamhill: "The world belongs to those that show up"
[16:49] adamhill: oh yeah, BTorrent... impossible
[16:49] sky__: the irc network is working ago
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[16:49] Schuyler: hi sky__ 
[16:49] nlowell: those that show up whom, adamhill?
[16:49] nlowell: :)
[16:50] sky__: Schuyler! you here?
[16:50] sky__: or are you in the east end?
[16:50] Schuyler: neither. I'm in Bristol.
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[16:50] Schuyler: we're going back to London tomorrow, though.
[16:50] jbond: this network is slow..
[16:51] sky__: bristol? having a dirty weekend?
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[16:51] Schuyler: jbond: you have 500 people on a single wi-fi segment. what did you expect?
[16:51] Schuyler: sky__: no, we've been hiding out.
[16:51] jbond: heh
[16:51] jbond: But then always-on is always slow
[16:51] sky__: Schuyler: one of those wifi vswitches?
[16:51] sky__: Schuyler: hiding from what? your land lord?
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[16:52] Schuyler: Don't get me started about the network at ORA conferences. Let me just say that I am grateful that it is no longer my problem.
[16:52] sky__: Schuyler: I am probably going up to SFO over the weekend and flying home later
[16:52] jbond: (Link: http://www.alwayson-network.com/comments.php?id=P7480_0_4_0_C)http://www.alwayson-network.com/comments.php?id=P7480_0_4_0_C Norvig: A friend of mine just asked can I send him all the URLs on the web that have dot-RDF, dot-OWL, and a couple other extensions on them; he couldn't find them all. I looked, and it turns out there's only around 200,000 of them.
[16:52] Schuyler: No, just hiding out from London.
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[16:53] jbond: schuyler: should I know you?
[16:53] Schuyler: jbond: that ignores all the RDF web services, of which there are actually quite a few (cf ecademy, livejournal)
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[16:53] jbond: quite
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[16:53] Schuyler: jbond: *should* you know me? maybe. do you? I don't know, who are you?
[16:53] jbond: Google makes no attempt to do anything useful with XML or RDF. Or MP3 ID3 tags
[16:53] Schuyler: hey cheesebikini, how's Sandy Eggo?
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[16:54] jbond: webmaster of ecademy. And from Ware, Herts
[16:54] jbond: So not far from London in an asian taxi driver kind of way. 
[16:54] Schuyler: oh, cool. nah, I'm Just Another RDF Hacker.
[16:54] sky__: if you ever been in the same room as schuyler, you would know him
[16:54] adamhill: but we can find open webcams with Google, go figure...
[16:54] jbond: adamhill: heh!
[16:55] jbond: Matt Jones just said "Extelligence"
[16:55] sky__: jbond: we have met at SoS
[16:55] jbond: social legibility. So not Chav then
[16:55] Schuyler: how's the conf, sky__ 
[16:55] jbond: SoS?
[16:55] sky__: Schuyler: fun
[16:55] sky__: Smith of Smithfields
[16:55] jbond: notCon?
[16:55] sky__: I think at least
[16:56] jbond: right
[16:56] jbond: Orkut meetup...
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[16:56] sky__: ah, that was it
[16:56] adamhill: aka Brazillian Meetup
[16:56] jbond: Whatever happened to Orkut anyway? I heard it had a brazilian.
[16:56] jbond: Clean shaven
[16:57] adamhill: hacked by carnivale
[16:57] jbond: Didn't Matt Jones do Glancing last year?
[16:57] noidfish: that was matt webb
[16:57] plasticbagUK: they're all the same
[16:57] plasticbagUK: aspects of a greater whole
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[16:57] jbond: the whole universe of Matts
[16:58] jbond: WHich one has the black belt?
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[16:58] plasticbagUK: Jones
[16:58] plasticbagUK: Webb's interconnected
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[16:59] jbond: Heathcote and Jones are so. So. So English.
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[16:59] plasticbagUK: oooooh sexy
[16:59] plasticbagUK: all dark and hot
[16:59] plasticbagUK: pulsing
[16:59] plasticbagUK: > cough < um
[16:59] plasticbagUK: sorry
[16:59] plasticbagUK: bac, in the room now
[16:59] Suw: hey tom :)
[17:00] * Alice eyes tom
[17:00] plasticbagUK: heya!
[17:00] jbond: Stop meeing around with the lights
[17:00] plasticbagUK: eep
[17:00] jbond: messing
[17:00] sky__: Heathcote is a finn!
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[17:00] jbond: Smart furniture! Ikea that assembles itself
[17:00] Suw: plasticbagUK: how' s etech? 
[17:00] plasticbagUK: "I don't go here"
[17:00] plasticbagUK: "You want me in the bedroom"
[17:00] jemstone: jones won't like being called english
[17:00] plasticbagUK: "Ew, I hate the shelves"
[17:00] plasticbagUK: s'cool
[17:00] plasticbagUK: mind blocked by other stuff a bit
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[17:01] plasticbagUK: including presentations we're doing
[17:01] jbond: The boxing Granny!
[17:01] crysflame: hi, plasticbag
[17:01] Suw: i'm sure you'll be great :) 
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[17:01] Suw: wish i was there. but never mind. 
[17:01] * crysflame too
[17:01] jbond: wish you were here
[17:01] plasticbagUK: my brain isn't hurting as quickly this year
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[17:02] plasticbagUK: I odn' tknow if that means my brains' bigger or the conference is less brain hurty
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[17:02] Suw: maybe it's like water off a ducks' back this year
[17:02] Suw: ;-)
[17:02] jbond: mmm. toast.
[17:02] Suw: talking of brain hurty, i just watched a documentary about maps in Welsh. 
[17:02] crysflame: i SO wish i had a movie of that map table raising up
[17:02] * crysflame is sad
[17:03] plasticbagUK: What do people think about the toast thing?
[17:03] crysflame: ever since i saw it in riven.. mm
[17:03] plasticbagUK: is that kind of thing going to be a gimmick?
[17:03] jbond: crysflame. You will, you will
[17:03] adamhill: your head is large cause of the bloggies, use a cold compress :)
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[17:03] plasticbagUK: are people actually going to use it or will they get it for $7 from the gadget shop
[17:03] Suw: hee hee
[17:03] plasticbagUK: and then throw it away
[17:03] TrevorFSmith: crysflame: I can't stop thinking about the crowd reaction to that table.  
[17:03] crysflame: what was the crowd reaction?
[17:03] crysflame: people aren't used to reactive materials yet.
[17:03] TrevorFSmith: crysflame: Everyone had such an incredible look on their faces.
[17:04] crysflame: the thought of combining computers and materials is almost beyond scifi territory
[17:04] jbond: neophiles. The lot of them.
[17:04] TrevorFSmith: crysflame: It was like someone had just whipped out Grey Goo.
[17:04] plasticbagUK: oooh. grey goo.
[17:04] crysflame: meanwhile here i sit going "oh my damn i missed it"
[17:04] * Suw thinks she must have missed something
[17:04] plasticbagUK: magic matter
[17:04] TrevorFSmith: Mixed fear, awe, surprise.
[17:04] crysflame: Suw: they had a video display table with a touch screen
[17:04] TrevorFSmith: I wish I had a picture of *that*.
[17:04] plasticbagUK: NO! NO! THE TABLE IS ALIVE!
[17:04] crysflame: when they wanted to make the map 3d, the table raised up
[17:04] crysflame: and turned into a 3d topo map
[17:05] crysflame: so a flat touchscreen that can turn 3d on a moment's notice?
[17:05] jbond: Must.
[17:05] striatic: like a membrane?
[17:05] Suw: eeee! oooooo! aaaaaaa!
[17:05] jbond: not.
[17:05] jbond: LOL
[17:05] striatic: or like .. raised pins?
[17:05] crysflame: striatic: mumble yes mumble maybe mumble
[17:05] Suw: ok, i want to see that too
[17:05] TrevorFSmith: It was just such a perfect moment, capturing the crowd's neophilia and geekish gawking.
[17:05] plasticbagUK: Don't think it was raised pins
[17:05] * crysflame nods
[17:05] plasticbagUK: but it was like that yeah
[17:05] crysflame: Suw: yep.
[17:05] plasticbagUK: except looked totally shiny and map like
[17:05] sky__: I don't like the yahoo market
[17:05] crysflame: i would do anything to see it
[17:05] striatic: hm
[17:05] plasticbagUK: like a representation of the ground in a litlte stockmarket
[17:05] sky__: it isn't a real market
[17:05] striatic: they could make a chair out of that
[17:05] Suw: did anyone take video?
[17:05] plasticbagUK: I was winning an hour or two ago
[17:05] plasticbagUK: not now though
[17:06] sky__: and it is going to get massively hacked
[17:06] striatic: people would buy a chair that does that
[17:06] sky__: because there is no captha
[17:06] sky__: captcha
[17:06] crysflame: i bet that once it leaves beta, it's tied into yahoo! accounts
[17:06] crysflame: which do have capatcha
[17:06] adamhill: someone in #geo found the URL - (Link: http://www.ms.northropgrumman.com/touchtable/)http://www.ms.northropgrumman.com/touchtable/
[17:06] sky__: also I cannot short sell
[17:07] sky__: and they don't describe the pricing system
[17:07] sky__: what we need is a future market on google adwords
[17:07] TrevorFSmith: I'm so pissed that Chris' session is filled past capacity.  
[17:07] sky__: that has real value
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[17:07] TrevorFSmith: Next thing you know, we'll be like DEFCon.
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[17:07] crysflame: Chris' session?
[17:07] jbond: Ooh futures in adwords. es
[17:07] TrevorFSmith: Tangible computing.
[17:07] crysflame: hi, dw
[17:07] crysflame: trevor: ooo
[17:07] sky__: jbond: you need quite a lot of cash to start it, but an external company could do it
[17:07] plasticbagUK: he doesn't need a tiara!±
[17:07] sky__: question is of course, how would google react, the could kill it
[17:08] jbond: Chris and Matt *are* Adam and Joe.
[17:08] jbond: Or maybe the Mighty Boosh
[17:08] TrevorFSmith: jbond: snort
[17:08] Suw: adam_and_joe++
[17:08] plasticbagUK: oh you're so right
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[17:09] jbond: SuW: You been watching Nathan Barley?
[17:09] Suw: no
[17:09] Suw: S4C
[17:09] Jibbler: the first episode of that was just weird and dull
[17:09] Suw: oh, wait, you didn't mean TV did you? 
[17:09] Jibbler: but the last one was good
[17:09] jbond: I can pretend to be a tag too.
[17:09] jbond: The heckling is starting
[17:10] TrevorFSmith: So, O'Reilly totally needs to figure out how to gracefully overflow.  This sucks.
[17:10] jbond: We need more blinkenlights
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[17:11] TrevorFSmith: I can't even get in the door to heckle. 
[17:11] plasticbagUK: people are milling
[17:11] Ewan_: i suggest big projectors somewhere...
[17:11] jbond: We had street tagging last year too,
[17:11] plasticbagUK: and it's scary
[17:11] Suw: heckle by proxy
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[17:11] plasticbagUK: THERE"S GOING TO BE A RIOT
[17:11] plasticbagUK: > AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH <
[17:11] jbond: where? where?
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[17:11] Suw: ooh, it's ikea all over again
[17:11] plasticbagUK: um.
[17:11] gustaf: ballroom blitz
[17:12] plasticbagUK: it's ALWAYS been easy to glue stuff together
[17:12] plasticbagUK: I used to do it all the time
[17:12] plasticbagUK: I'd get headaches and stuff
[17:12] plasticbagUK: but I'd feel really gooooood
[17:12] Ewan_: yes but I don't think Gloy Gum was in XML
[17:12] striatic: have they started bashing each other's skulls in with their powerbooks yet?
[17:12] TrevorFSmith: I don't think they're talking about glueing your hand to your face, pb.
[17:12] plasticbagUK: ah.
[17:12] plasticbagUK: I see.
[17:12] plasticbagUK: fine.
[17:12] Suw: eyup ewan :)
[17:12] Suw: did crow get you sorted?
[17:12] Ewan_: Eeey Suw
[17:12] jbond: Superglue only works to glue fingertips together
[17:13] jbond: you can buy knobs
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[17:13] plasticbagUK: I'd heard that
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[17:13] plasticbagUK: Chris looks scared.
[17:13] * Ewan_ orries. Jones is going freeform
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[17:14] jbond: losing it
[17:14] plasticbagUK: RIOT!
[17:14] plasticbagUK: AAAAAAAAH
[17:14] jbond: This is the point where we need a rubber chicken
[17:14] sky__: buy one on ebay!
[17:14] plasticbagUK: I heard Chris bought a knob.
[17:14] Ewan_: Hold on, it's yet ANOTHER non BBC slide that's got Tom Coates picture!!!
[17:15] plasticbagUK: what?!
[17:15] plasticbagUK: I missed it?!
[17:15] plasticbagUK: where!?
[17:15] plasticbagUK: no fair. no. fair.
[17:15] Ewan_: Jones and Heathcotes "more inputs" slide- you're gawking a GBA DS
[17:15] plasticbagUK: I am!?
[17:15] plasticbagUK: are you sure!?
[17:15] Ewan_: Yep
[17:15] marksimpkins:  er, he's blowing on it
[17:15] neb_: i think that was jones doing the gawking
[17:15] Ewan_: slight spaced look, unshaven, post-ironic look. Yep
[17:16] plasticbagUK: that couldbe anyone
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[17:16] Ewan_: Well I say it's Tom, and I claim my five pounds
[17:16] Ewan_: :-)
[17:18] Suw: yay! vidchat!
[17:18] Suw: i can see a sea of heads. 
[17:18] adamhill: who has a reflector!
[17:18] jbond: What is up with Matt. He keeps breaking into gigges
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[17:19] Alice: DS has breath sensors. 
[17:20] crysflame: oo
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[17:20] Suw: i can't see a thing but a sea of heads and a blue screen in the corner
[17:20] crysflame: Boutell the Boutell Boutell?
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[17:20] crysflame: plasticbagUK: oh, hi! i just recognized your real name out of scrollback. ltns and stuff
[17:21] Jonathan_Boutell: not sure what you mean
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[17:21] crysflame: Boutell: wusage?
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[17:21] crysflame: hi, imajes
[17:22] plasticbagUK: huh?
[17:22] plasticbagUK: alice?
[17:22] plasticbagUK: oh crys - soder?
[17:22] Jonathan_Boutell: no that is not me sorry
[17:22] * crysflame nods
[17:22] crysflame: Boutell: no worries. hi anyways =)
[17:22] plasticbagUK: how do?
[17:23] Jonathan_Boutell: I'm Boutelle but it's cropping my tag
[17:23] crysflame: it's been nuts
[17:23] crysflame: i live in san francisco now, for instance. crazy times.
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[17:23] sky__: where to stay in san
[17:24] Suw: damn, i missed that joke
[17:24] Suw: waht did he say? 
[17:24] Alice: you confused again tom?
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[17:26] NelsonM: ok, who's seeding the giant torrents from the etech wireless netowrkk?
[17:27] jbond: Nigeria has a bad rep
[17:27] sky__: deserved bad rep
[17:27] Schuyler: sky__: you need a place to stay in DF?
[17:27] *** KevinMarks has signed off IRC ("Oops. This machine just fell asleep").
[17:27] Schuyler: er, SF?
[17:27] Schuyler: sky__: why don't you ping ology? he's living downtown
[17:27] tengi: Are there any traffic graphs (MRTG/rrdtool) for the ETech network?
[17:27] sky__: Schuyler: possibly
[17:27] sky__: oo
[17:28] Suw: oh damn KevinMarks' flat battery! 
[17:28] Schuyler: perhaps hackworth could help you out also
[17:28] sky__: what is his email?
[17:28] sky__: hackworth is out of town until saturday
[17:28] Schuyler: gene@ology.net
[17:29] sky__: which is why I will fly home on Sunday
[17:29] Earthman: Hmm, net bandwidth seems to be in short supply
[17:29] Schuyler: sky__: if you find yourself hard up, I can definitely find you a place to stay there
[17:29] Schuyler: it's an ORA conf, what did you expect
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[17:29] crysflame: hi, schuyler
[17:29] sky__: Schuyler: or I will stay at the Compton Place Hotel
[17:29] crysflame: come say hi to me in san francisco at some point
[17:29] sky__: hmm
[17:29] Schuyler: hiya crysflame 
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[17:29] crysflame: schuyler: you know that gene@ isn't vipul, right
[17:29] Schuyler: crysflame: well, Jo and I might come to SF for Where 2.hlagulhluaghluaghluahg
[17:29] crysflame: where what?
[17:29] sky__: yes
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[17:30] crysflame: Schuyler: i'm already, uh, crashing at ology's
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[17:31] sky__: Schuyler: virgin or ba?
[17:31] Schuyler: sky__: we'll probably fly from NEw York, since w're already going to be in US
[17:32] Schuyler: I like Virgin, though... BA is usually too expensive for me :-)
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[17:32] Schuyler: sky__: heh, ology says you can squeeze in there with him and Coral
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[17:41] daveviner: are there channels for each room?
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[17:42] crysflame: not to my knowledge
[17:42] danyel: Dave, it's more exciting when we have to wonder which channel links to which conversation. ("I hate that slide!")
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[17:42] daveviner: haha
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[17:45] neb_: C: perhaps prefacing your comment with the ballroom letter?
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[17:45] migurski: B: too easy
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[17:46] neb_: C: we're learning about unstuffing DNA in here
[17:46] SDEtech99: how many more ppl are here this year than last year?
[17:46] SDEtech99: these rooms are crowded
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[17:46] mike: too many good talks - are slides available for talks we miss?
[17:46] cybaea: SDEtech99: way too crowded rooms.
[17:46] cybaea: mike: Some of them were last year after the event
[17:47] migurski: B: plenty of seating in B, surprisingly
[17:47] SDEtech99: i'd love dyson's slides
[17:47] migurski: salesforce looked s-l-a-m-m-e-d
[17:47] SDEtech99: it is slammed
[17:47] SDEtech99: SRO
[17:47] mike: dna has room - v interesting
[17:47] sky__: slammed?
[17:48] migurski: everybody wants that salesforce magic money goodness
[17:48] daveviner: lol
[17:48] SDEtech99: full
[17:48] migurski: instead i'm hearing about pornography!
[17:48] SDEtech99: standing room only
[17:48] daveviner: "moore's law stopped" ????
[17:48] migurski: HA
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[17:49] TrevorFSmith: C: Well, we're not certain that it has room.  A lot of what was once "junk" is now considered essential.
[17:50] *** noidfish has signed off IRC ().
[17:50] mike: programming bacteria as a class project....
[17:50] migurski: B: decency laws are diff. from obscenity laws, interesting
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[17:51] neb_:  C: designing a platform or framework for bioengineering
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[17:52] imajes: uk blogger tom reynolds in the times - (Link: http://imajes.info/images/tom-timesarticleweb.jpg)http://imajes.info/images/tom-timesarticleweb.jpg
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[17:54] neb_: C: boolean NOT gates built of proteins
[17:54] mike: C: Parts -> Devices -> Systems = biological product
[17:54] crysflame: salesforce magic money?
[17:54] daveviner: yahoo++
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[17:54] daveviner: (according to salesforce guy)
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[17:54] cybaea: P: "Sforce web service API is now responsible for 20% of salesforce.com activity."
[17:55] sky__: where is the salesforce talk?
[17:55] danyel: Cybaea: Hm. And flickr this morning was cited at 15% right now, yes?
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[17:55] mike: C: made ring oscillator with bioligical components - set of 3 nand gates
[17:55] cybaea: P: "eBay API is responsible for 40% of listings."
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[17:56] cybaea: danyel: I didn't catch that number
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[17:56] neb_: i realize that there are 2 "B"s.  perhaps the letter preface was not so hot.  but this gets solved by reffering to Plaza B as "P"
[17:56] mike: C: dna won't replace a microprocessor - but simple things like 8 bit counter embedded in a cell could be very useful <endquote>
[17:57] cybaea: neb_: Been doing that :-)
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[17:59] neb_: i know, i thought i'd clear that up
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[17:59] mike: c: spec'ing dna interfaces - "remember not laid out on a breadboard - all mixed in together" makes it harder
[17:59] mike: C: took two years to make the ring oscillator - hasn't been repeated :-(
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[18:01] cybaea: P: demo salesforce.com, sforece.com, and customforce.com
[18:01] crysflame: thanks for the quotes ^P:
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[18:02] mike: cybaea: no mention of NetSuite :-) ?
[18:02] cybaea: mike: No - don't be silly :-)  
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[18:03] migurski: C: prepaid (cash) internet porn cards!
[18:03] cybaea: mike: Nor rightnow.  See also (Link: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=related:www.salesforce.com/)http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=related:www.salesforce.com/
[18:04] cybaea: P: You can't use salesforce.com with a microphone :-)
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[18:05] cybaea: migurski: why do I buy them?! :-)
[18:05] neb_: C: congress has outlawed the synthesis of smallpox
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[18:06] alice: flakola.
[18:06] migurski: cybaea: anonymity!
[18:06] neb_: C: polio was synthesized from online sequence data using DNA delivered by fedex
[18:06] mike: c: risk strategy for smallpox is physical containment - "easy to do for past three years, but now its illegal"
[18:06] mike: "easy to synthesize" I meant
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[18:07] cybaea: If it is easy to synthesize how is outlawing it going to help?
[18:07] mike: c: 'engineering of dna is coming online' 'is getting easier and easier to manipulate it'
[18:07] cybaea: ("If smallpox is illegal, only criminals will have smallpox")
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[18:08] mike: C: "making smallpox is now a crime, but the only people who will make it for release won't care that's its against the law"
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[18:08] jbond: mike: physical containment is illlegal?
[18:09] cybaea: P: He is going to run out of time
[18:09] mike: C: Technology classes relevent to future biological risk (needed capabilities): manipulation, detection, analysis, response
[18:09] cybaea: P: ten minutes left
[18:09] mike: jbond: synthesis of smallpox is easy, but now its illegal. I feel safer, don't you?
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[18:10] jbond: ok.  thought we were talking EU human rights.
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[18:10] cybaea: P: yawn.
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[18:10] mike: C: technology for manipulating genetic info is cheap and available worldwide
[18:12] wkearney99: info's cheap, actually DOING it isn't
[18:12] mike: C: 2600 article: Hacking the Genmoe
[18:12] cybaea: P: Salesforce.com has re-invented Oracle Forms.  This is a good thing?????
[18:12] jbond: cybea: ugh!
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[18:12] mike: wkearney99: his point is that its getting cheaper and easier, including garage level hacking, I mean remixing :-)
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[18:13] cybaea: P: customfoce.com is just like Oracle Forms, except .. uhm .. not as "good"?
[18:14] SDEtech99: sooo, it's a CMS with lots of modules?
[18:14] mike: anyone in B?  What's coming down the pipe driven by porn industry requirements?
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[18:14] SDEtech99: heh, he said pipe
[18:14] Suw: lots of people in orange and red at etech, i see. wonder if that means something
[18:14] alice: guffaw
[18:14] mike: C: programming bacteria to take a picture
[18:14] cybaea: P: "You don't have to use point-and-click: you could just write an XML configuration file"
[18:14] alice: hey where's the online schedule ? i can't find it on the wiki
[18:14] cybaea: P: right-on .....
[18:15] cybaea: Alice: (Link: http://conferences.oreillynet.com/pub/w/36/program.html#tuesday)http://conferences.oreillynet.com/pub/w/36/program.html#tuesday
[18:15] mike: C: student competition
[18:15] alice: ta cybaea
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[18:15] mike: C: parts.mit.edu (I think?)
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[18:16] bkdelong: Is there a chumpbot in here?
[18:16] jbond: what other technologies are the pr0n industry working on and leading the field?
[18:16] jbond: peercasting. video on demand?
[18:16] mike: DNA picture "Hello World" - gigapixel. 10x10", each 1" sq has a billion cells. Cool picture!
[18:16] bkdelong: teledildonics?
[18:16] mike: Took 10 weeks to 'build' it.
[18:16] neb_: C: photosensitive plate of handcoded bacteria reproduce "Hello World"
[18:17] paulm: checkout the totally encrypted layer exchangers of children pron have put on the net... apparently very well implemented
[18:17] mike: C: student team did this - well beyond speaker's PhD only 8 yrs ago
[18:17] jbond: dealing with bandwidth issues without involving akamai
[18:18] TrevorFSmith: "They didn't spell out 'you just got 0wn3d, you got Ebola' they spelled out 'hello, world'."
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[18:18] jbond: paulm. Which fails when dumb end user gets their C fixed at C World
[18:18] jbond: C fixed at Circuit city
[18:18] jbond: PC! 
[18:18] paulm: jbond: fortunately ;-)
[18:18] jbond: damn P key
[18:19] mike: c: (Link: http://mit.edu/endy/www/talks/)http://mit.edu/endy/www/talks/ - slides from this talk, ppt
[18:19] jbond: The ebay defence
[18:19] jbond: I bought a second drive on ebay and didn't bother reformatting it
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[18:20] cybaea: Time's up - somebody tell the speaker, please
[18:20] bkdelong: We're sticking a crapload of BioEng course material on MIT OCW this cycle
[18:20] paulm: just for the record: I don't have that kind of material, but I prefer to physically destroying an older drive over selling it
[18:20] bkdelong: ....BTW
[18:20] cybaea: Next show: coffee :-9
[18:20] cybaea: later
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[18:21] mike: C: "Any one of you could go build" ... brings up Ebay screen
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[18:21] paulm: ciao
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[18:21] mike: C: searches for DNA Synthesizer
[18:22] mike: C: "You build a massively parallel DNA synthesizer for $20k"
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[18:23] mike: C: brought up the DNA sequence for smallpox - from size (Link: www.ncbi.nim.nih.gov)www.ncbi.nim.nih.gov
[18:23] mike: size -> site
[18:23] mike: C: "You build" -> "You can build"
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[18:26] mike: C: "costs about $1.40 per base pair" - about $200k to order smallpox commercially
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[18:26] mike: C: "noise [cost] to build it yourself"
[18:27] mike: C: showing us a website where you can order DNA - just give them the sequence (but they won't do smallpox, or other agents they screen against)
[18:28] mike: C: Can build about 40k base pairs now (human genome is 4 billion)
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[18:29] mike: C: don't use the term "killer application" when you're talking about biological fabrication :-)
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[18:32] mike: C: Q&A continues - worth dropping by
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[18:33] mike: C: never mind - q&a finished
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[18:41] crysflame: haha
[18:42] sky__: gr
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[18:45] cybaea: C: Nelson on the stage.  Hi Nelson ...
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[18:47] striatic: hm
[18:47] striatic: groceries via RSS
[18:47] striatic: that's what i need
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[18:48] striatic: feed me.
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[18:49] crysflame: 304 Not Modified
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[18:49] cybaea: C: Starting now.
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[18:52] TrevorFSmith:  So, what happened to radio usage in 1993?
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[18:53] TrevorFSmith: It had a huge jump for the BBC.  Why?
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[18:54] genmon: hey, i'm matt webb
[18:54] genmon: i'm on stage in the bbc radio talk
[18:54] ChrisDodo: hello mwebb!
[18:54] genmon: if you want real-time clarifications, just ask me
[18:54] dotBen: lol
[18:55] lyza: Hi Matt Web
[18:55] migurski: who is the guy talking? 
[18:55] lyza: I'm staring at you
[18:55] dotBen: good luck guys
[18:55] genmon: hey folks :)
[18:55] TrevorFSmith: So, why did usage have such a jump in 1993?
[18:55] genmon: paul hammond: (Link: http://www.paulhammond.com)http://www.paulhammond.com
[18:55] migurski: danke
[18:55] dotBen: hes a paranoid fish
[18:55] genmon: usage: partially a change of the way the measurements were done, but the trend's there...
[18:55] TrevorFSmith: BBC usage, that is.
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[18:56] genmon: ..and that's because the rise of good, local commercial drove listening in a wider sense
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[18:56] genmon: (people tend to listen to multiple networks, so listening to one radio station means listening to more)
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[18:57] Suw: hey matt
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[18:58] genmon: here's the 10 hour takeover webpage: (Link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/djs/tenhour/)http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/djs/tenhour/
[18:59] genmon: the tracklisting: (Link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/djs/tenhour/easter04/)http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/djs/tenhour/easter04/
[18:59] michaelhilton: i got a page not found from that link
[18:59] dotBen: anyone in the google adwords talk in here???
[18:59] sky__: yes
[18:59] dviner: yup
[18:59] dviner: SOAP vs. rest.
[18:59] TrevorFSmith: Could we sell clearchannel to BBC?
[18:59] genmon: curious, both links working for me
[19:00] cybaea: C: Buzzword bingo.
[19:00] migurski: trevor: god yes.
[19:00] dviner: why are google and semantic web/bbc talk simultaneous ??
[19:00] genmon: this is matt biddulph: (Link: http://www.hackdiary.com/)http://www.hackdiary.com/
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[19:01] cybaea: C: Google not using any of the WS-* standards
[19:01] migurski: his bbc + del.icio.us hack was great
[19:01] jemstone: (Link: http://www.hackdiary.com/archives/000051.html)http://www.hackdiary.com/archives/000051.html - this is his blog entry on how he did it
[19:01] TrevorFSmith: genmon: "good, local commercial dove" is what?  stores piping in music?
[19:01] dviner: are the conference slides available anywhere ?
[19:01] genmon: sorry, meant good, local, commercial radio networks [missed a couple of words]. that drove listening in general
[19:02] TrevorFSmith: genmon: ah.  thanks
[19:02] genmon: radio 1's view on how the takeover worked: (Link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/djs/tenhour/works/)http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/djs/tenhour/works/
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[19:04] cybaea: P: "Stop thinking of API as function calls, think of it as passing XML documents around."
[19:04] TrevorFSmith: But, how do I pay off the DJ to get my record on?
[19:04] cybaea: Sorry: C
[19:05] ChrisDodo: buy lots of phones and text in!
[19:05] migurski: Live 105 (in san francisco) often broadcasts in an open studio, at a downtown mall
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[19:05] migurski: so they encourage you to swing by, and interact directly with the DJ's
[19:05] genmon: there were messageboards that organised sms-bombing the 10 hour takeover to get their favourite trakcs on
[19:05] dotBen: so far those of you in the bbc talk arent missing much from the google talk
[19:05] migurski: i'm sure there's a payola vehicle in there someplace
[19:05] ChrisDodo: but it's one play. one play isn't worth anything - getting on a playlist is
[19:06] NiallKennedy: migurski: yes, at the Sony Metreon
[19:06] genmon: tom coates: (Link: http://www.plasticbag.org)http://www.plasticbag.org
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[19:08] striatic: he was in here earlier
[19:08] genmon: this is the first bbc podcasting trial: (Link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/inourtime/mp3_podcast.shtml)http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/inourtime/mp3_podcast.shtml
[19:08] migurski: striatic: now he's onstage
[19:08] dviner: genmon: are you one of the speakers ?
[19:08] migurski: unidirectional voice-chat
[19:08] genmon: [for people who have just joined, i'm on the stage in the bbc radio talk, throwing out supplementary links and info.]
[19:09] genmon: dviner: i'm just sitting on the stage, not speaking today
[19:09] dviner: genmon: are the slides online somewhere?
[19:09] genmon: dviner: they will be soon
[19:09] dviner: sweet
[19:09] cybaea: C: SOAP and WSDL interoperability:
[19:09] cybaea: Good: .NET, Java (Axis)
[19:09] cybaea: OK: C++ (gSOAP), Perl (SOAP::Lite)
[19:09] cybaea: Not good: Python (SOAPpy, ZSI), PHP (many options)
[19:10] striatic: t(Link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/djs/tenhour/works/)http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/djs/tenhour/works/ has a sort of description of the 10hour takeover in slide form
[19:10] jseng: anyone in the microsoft research lab room?
[19:10] _dav: How about Ruby?
[19:10] cybaea: C: SOAp and WSDL interoperabilityC: "Python is probably the worst..."
[19:10] cybaea: Oops.
[19:10] TrevorFSmith: genmon: So, can the BBC tell record companies to piss off, such that their stations aren't payola driven format stations and are reactive to text messages for indie bands?
[19:10] cybaea: C: "Python is probably the worst..."
[19:10] _dav: Ruby on Rails has wsdl out of the box, not sure how good it is
[19:10] wch2: I'm in the microsoft room
[19:11] cybaea: _dav: No info from Nelson on that
[19:11] TrevorFSmith: wch2: Don't sign anything.
[19:11] sky__: jesus
[19:11] jemstone: dan hill who works with matt, matt, tom, paul at the BBC talks in more detail about these projects  (Link: http://www.cityofsound.com/blog/bbc/index.html)http://www.cityofsound.com/blog/bbc/index.html
[19:11] sky__: how the fuck can anything be worse than SOAP::Lite?
[19:11] migurski: hah
[19:11] genmon: trevorfsmith: the rights situation is pretty nuanced. i think the bbc would prefer to help the whole ecosystem to move to a state where everyone is advantaged rather than strike out on its own. it has a mandate to help the market
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[19:12] cybaea: C: "The hardest thing is to send nothing; zero bits"
[19:12] dviner: genmon: ar ethe live tracklistings available outside of the bbc ?
[19:12] genmon: so the bbc can help the situation along by demonstrating the power of open distribution, etc, and use that as an illustration
[19:13] striatic: and then other people can figure out how to coopt and exploit that?
[19:13] striatic: ;)
[19:13] TrevorFSmith: genmon: You think that it is possible that indie records can find BBC airtime alongside major releases if the demand is demonstrated?
[19:13] paulm: the other item the BBC has (that was not on the list) is quite a bit of state funding ;-)
[19:13] dviner: that's open source tho... exploit versus utilize is a quite thin line.
[19:13] genmon: dviner: for some networks, it's on the websites. in the near future, we're figuring out ways to make this much more open
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[19:14] genmon: for example with distribution, the knock on effect of podcasting In Our Time was a tripling of regular listen on demand
[19:14] TrevorFSmith: Nice.
[19:15] jseng: whats the name of the app the MS Research guy is demoing?
[19:15] migurski: bittorrent has totally replaced tv for me, instinctively it feels like a model i'd switch to entirey
[19:15] paulm: how's the MS presentation?
[19:16] Jonathan_Boutell: how is the MS Research thing? Is it pie in the sky stuff or semi-useful/interesting?
[19:16] jseng: interesting...but i missed the name
[19:16] genmon: trevorfsmith: it's starting, gradually. there are mp3 downloads of unsigned artists starting, tho i can't find the url right now. i'll hunt more
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[19:19] TrevorFSmith: genmon: Are you finding any interesting tag population grouping over time, as happens with flickr?
[19:19] genmon: bbc mp3 downloads: (Link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/onemusic/unsigned/)http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/onemusic/unsigned/
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[19:20] genmon: bbc mp3 downloads: (Link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/6music/shows/gideon_coe/)http://www.bbc.co.uk/6music/shows/gideon_coe/ (mp3free down at the bottom)
[19:21] genmon: trevorfsmith: at the moment we're testing internally at the bbc - it's a big place - to gather enough data to see if the tag populations are growing. we're still gathering data
[19:22] striatic: how many text messages per hour on the 10 hour takeover?
[19:22] jbond: I'd love to see track listings of the music used as  backing racks on TV. 
[19:22] migurski: book clubs are a good model for group listening: the reading happens off-line, the reflection + conversation is synchronized
[19:22] TrevorFSmith: genmon: ah. thanks.
[19:22] Mutiny: how's the "building a new web service at google" presentation?
[19:22] genmon: striatic: i believe 150,000 over 10 hours. i don't know the peak rate. i'll have to check with matt biddulph
[19:22] jbond: Especially everythig out of BBC Bristol. eg Gardeners world
[19:23] genmon: migurski: book clubs are an example we use inside frequently to stop people thinking too strictly about "technology." book clubs are social software for the 50+
[19:23] striatic: also, was there any feedback to the people voting? on a web site or the Djs saying which songs were picking up votes?
[19:23] striatic: or all freeform?
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[19:24] jbond: Damn thees seats are hard
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[19:24] sky__: yes
[19:24] pjw: mary hodder, did you lose a battery?
[19:24] genmon: striatic: the tracklisting provide feedback from takeover day to takeover day, and there's a very short feedback showing the kinds of messages being sent in recently--but no medium-time feedback like you suggest. it's a gap we're discussing how to fill for next time round, because it is very important
[19:24] pjw: <p>
[19:25] hodder: hey
[19:25] hodder: no..
[19:25] TrevorFSmith: genmon: You're familiar with the PARC "shared media space" research from the 90s?
[19:25] TrevorFSmith: PARC and GaTech (and others), that is.
[19:25] hodder: but thanks for asking
[19:25] striatic: indeed. it would be tricky .. having it mostly blind is might be part of the appeal.
[19:25] genmon: trevorfsmith: indeed. encounted a bunch of this stuff for my Glancing talk last year
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[19:26] genmon: trevorfsmith: we're reaching towards a more social, less goal-directed form of interaction. friendly hanging-out online
[19:26] migurski: we (@stamen) built something like this for moveon.org last year, though in the context of political "town hall" meetings, not music
[19:27] SDEtech99: doesn't irc scratch that itch?
[19:27] Mutiny: i'd be far far more interested in a google adsense api than an adwords api
[19:27] Earthman: This DateLens thing is kinda nice
[19:27] TrevorFSmith: genmon: you might also be interested in chatting with Nicolas Ducheneaut about his social TV project (digging 'round for pubs or refs)
[19:28] knauer: wow... this microsoft guy sure seems to want us to think everything he is showing is "very cool"
[19:28] migurski: datelens - URL?
[19:28] jbond: Mutiny: API to what? 
[19:28] Mutiny: knauer, is any of it?
[19:28] Mutiny: jbond, AdSense
[19:28] migurski: or was it _data_ lens?
[19:28] jbond: yes but what data about adsense
[19:28] knauer: he has said "very cool" at least 30 times since I walked in the room 5 mins ago
[19:28] knauer: not really
[19:28] marksimpkins: yeah, its very cool
[19:28] Earthman: migurski: DateLens
[19:28] genmon: trevorfsmith: thanks very much. you should talk to tom coates afterwards about this, as he's been doing a lot of thinking about social tv
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[19:28] marksimpkins: :( i cant find any URLS for any of this on the MS Research site
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[19:29] marksimpkins: can someone ask him to breath.
[19:29] SDEtech99: (Link: http://www.cs.umd.edu/hcil/datelens/)http://www.cs.umd.edu/hcil/datelens/
[19:29] Earthman: Yeah, he reminds me of the FedEx commercial guy
[19:29] knauer: the microsoft research stuff was being done at xerox parc 15 years ago
[19:29] knauer: (Link: http://www.maya.com/Portfolio/workscape.html)http://www.maya.com/Portfolio/workscape.html
[19:30] Earthman: knauer: everything was being done at PARC 15 years ago :-)
[19:30] jbond: re adsense. I want something like last.fm three buttons. Like, Ban, Skip available for me on every googlead on the web. 
[19:30] marksimpkins: thanks SDEtech99
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[19:30] TrevorFSmith: everything you'll use 15 years from now are at PARC now. *cough*
[19:30] jbond: Then I could feed back what I wanted them to show on my site
[19:30] migurski: tags! tags! tags!
[19:30] jbond: because right now Adsense's idea of what they should show on my ste sux. 
[19:31] jbond: tags++
[19:31] marksimpkins: oh, that was nice
[19:31] jbond: hiearchies--
[19:31] SDEtech99: adsense needs pictures
[19:31] Mutiny: yeah
[19:31] knauer: agreed
[19:31] knauer: spinning stuff ++
[19:31] jbond: twirling++
[19:31] Mutiny: it would be nice to be able to say "i want to put ads for *THIS* keyword into this page" rather than have adsense trying to figure it out
[19:31] marksimpkins: now, will it break????
[19:31] Mutiny: and then being able to do stuff like smart-tag up your own site if you wanted to.
[19:32] migurski: hierarchies + tags == great joy
[19:32] Earthman: Things like AdSense are really bad for blogs
[19:32] jbond: Thing is we're doing it with technorati tags. but google isn't listening
[19:32] jbond: migurski: wikipedia categories?
[19:32] marksimpkins: ok, that was good.
[19:33] jbond: free form hierarchies
[19:33] migurski: that, and using hierarchies of knowns to interpret clouds of tags
[19:33] jbond: sorry, not hierarchy. not trees but meshes
[19:33] jbond: A tree is just a special case of a mesh
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[19:34] TrevorFSmith: BBC: all of those characteristics he just attributed to SMS used to be true for email.
[19:34] Earthman: Clustering based on statistical correlation on tags is interesting
[19:34] TrevorFSmith: BBC: it used to be an event when you got an email (pre-spam) and it used to be spotty, taking variable amounts of time for delivery.
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[19:35] striatic: earthman: like the flickr "related" tags?
[19:36] jbond: A moment's silence here for John Peel
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[19:36] Earthman: striatic: Yes (we just did that on Technorati)
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[19:36] striatic: and del.icio.us too {of course}?
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[19:36] Earthman: Si
[19:36] Earthman: What we, Del and Flickr do is pretty straightforward
[19:37] Earthman: You could do much more
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[19:37] Earthman: What we do is essentially just graph traversal
[19:37] * jbond is not hapy about the state of tag UI navigation
[19:37] SDEtech99: i want attribute/value pairs for pictures
[19:37] SDEtech99: not just tags
[19:37] Earthman: You could do more statistical correlation of tags to text
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[19:37] * jbond thinks we should work on that before trying to improve the quality of the clustering
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[19:38] KevinMarks: well, we have search, lists and heatmaps
[19:38] KevinMarks: and those bouncy network thinsg that are fun for 5 minutes
[19:38] jbond: fac.etio.us
[19:39] cybaea: C: switching presenters
[19:39] jbond: Those lists of tags in different font sizes are getting irritating
[19:39] jbond: and it gets worse when you want to navigate and filter in several dimensions
[19:39] jbond: eg category+location+time
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[19:40] striatic: has anyone done related tags based on multiple input tags?
[19:40] alice: where's takingbacktv?
[19:40] alice: is it ballroom B?
[19:40] marksimpkins: alice: yep
[19:40] jbond: Ive been trying to imagine a craigslist that used tags instead of hierarchies. Location is hard
[19:41] jbond: and messy
[19:41] alice: ta
[19:41] TrevorFSmith: striatic: tag fusion is hard, messy
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[19:41] jbond: BBC guys: I want track listings of backing music in TV programs.
[19:42] Earthman: For location, can use the notion of Venues, within a well-defined geo area
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[19:43] Earthman: Venues are a tag-like, flat space
[19:44] jbond: For the poster, flat share in N London has a unique Lat/long. For the searcher they want flat shares, in a price range, in an approxomate geo area 
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[19:44] TrevorFSmith: Earthman: where are you getting the def of "venue"?  Is that a published lexicon (academic or otherwise)?
[19:44] Earthman: Trevor:  No, it would be folksie
[19:45] TrevorFSmith: *in* a published lexicon, rather.
[19:45] Mutiny: did anybody take notes for Annalee Newitz's presentation?
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[19:45] jbond: (Link: http://www.voidstar.com/node.php?id=2275)http://www.voidstar.com/node.php?id=2275
[19:45] jbond: for sex drives
[19:45] striatic: the venues would be folksie, but the geographical areas would be established within the system
[19:46] striatic: or would the geographical areas be arrived at through some social mechanism as well?
[19:46] Earthman: striatic: I think the first thing you said
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[19:47] Earthman: Places people hang out, for example
[19:47] TrevorFSmith: Earthman: because there have been many "place vs space" and "re-place-ing space" ideas, none of them particularly well deployed.
[19:47] Mutiny: jbond, awesome, thanks.  :)
[19:47] genmon: anyone know the ip range of etcon? i need to ip range the demo apps to it
[19:48] cybaea: C: A != A
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[19:48] ChrisDodo: talk to tom igoe - he had to do the same
[19:49] Mutiny: ip2.globalevents.iinet.com i'm guessing.  :)
[19:49] cybaea: C: i == U+2170, U+2139, U+2148 etc.
[19:49] TrevorFSmith: genmon: where are you demo'ing?
[19:49] genmon: (Link: http://rnd.historicalfact.com/phonetags/)http://rnd.historicalfact.com/phonetags/ and (Link: http://rnd.historicalfact.com/gl/)http://rnd.historicalfact.com/gl/
[19:50] Mutiny: considering almost 50% of the people in this channel are using that address, i'm pretty sure.
[19:50] dviner: do IRI compliant browsers send cookies to the same place?
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[19:50] cybaea: C: (Link: http://intertwingly.net/slides/2005/etcon/)http://intertwingly.net/slides/2005/etcon/
[19:51] Earthman: Stop the Apple commercial and get to Tiger
[19:51] Earthman: We all already bought them, for goodness sake!
[19:51] jrnoded: heh
[19:51] termie: :/ reading
[19:51] tengi: genmon: for Tom & Raffi's tutorial, we were using low numbered hosts on 10.10.0.*, but I think they had to clear that with the netops.
[19:51] TrevorFSmith: Earthman: what do you think that session is?
[19:51] Earthman: lol
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[19:53] jbond: what are people doing for food tonite?
[19:53] Earthman: Oh, a Finder that FINDS?  What a concept!
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[19:54] Suw: hey wendy!
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[19:54] paulm: geeezzz.. distribute the speech in print and start presenting
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[19:55] jbond: who's up behind the desk.
[19:55] dviner: sam ruby's talk is at (Link: http://intertwingly.net/slides/2005/etcon/)http://intertwingly.net/slides/2005/etcon/
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[19:55] jbond: in ballroom B
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[19:56] cybaea: C: (Link: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=bad+characters+146+site%3Awww.feedvalidator.org)http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=bad+characters+146+site%3Awww.feedvalidator.org
[19:56] Earthman: Tag is with metadata, Luke
[19:56] Earthman: Tag it*
[19:56] Mutiny: oh wow another plone site that looks just like every other plone site, never seen that before.
[19:56] jbond: Mutiny: where are you now?
[19:57] marksimpkins: so, what are posm.tv trying to do?
[19:57] Earthman: jbond:  do you want the answer as a venue or a geocode :-)
[19:57] crysflame: is there a decimal geocoding system that doesn't require two sets of numbers, only one?
[19:57] jbond: heh
[19:58] cybaea: C: :-)
[19:58] ChrisDodo: yes - uk grid, finnish grid
[19:58] cybaea: C: Y! bashing
[19:58] ChrisDodo: but they require letters too
[19:58] crysflame: worldwide
[19:58] crysflame: letters is fine, but must work for anywhere in the world
[19:58] ChrisDodo: hard to do to different resolutions
[19:58] crysflame: for bonus points, depth as well
[19:58] ChrisDodo: finn grid may be worldwide.... dunno
[19:58] jbond: metres along a predefined spiral around the world
[19:58] Earthman: Some kind of spiral might work
[19:59] dviner: C: not y! bashing... he said y! fixed it.. just didn't document it
[19:59] marksimpkins: oh my god. their own set top box
[19:59] crysflame: jbond, earthman: nice.
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[19:59] marksimpkins: how about PAL :)
[19:59] Earthman: Of course, we'd argue about where  the spiral would be centered
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[19:59] Earthman: Greenwich, I guess
[19:59] KevinMarks: geocoding points is not enough
[19:59] cybaea: dviner: Yesh, but they released it broken.  But good point
[19:59] danyel: jbond, interesting, but spiral tightness becomes a problem -- or does the encoding system have limited fineness?
[19:59] tengi: their own set top box that you build yourself....
[19:59] jbond: N pole. Or S Pole to avoid being northist
[20:00] crysflame: danyel: tightness is defined implicitly by the number of digits of precision, i would think
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[20:00] jbond: A spiral with 1metre between tracks 
[20:00] marksimpkins: so, why their STB rather than any other?
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[20:00] cybaea: C: Ouch.  Trick questions :-)
[20:00] dviner: lol
[20:00] Earthman: How long did it take this guy to tag all his photos?
[20:00] danyel: crys, that's a massive tech. headache. we can talk offline, but does that mean that 3.1 meters is possibly very far away from 3.11 meters (because the tightness has changed?)
[20:00] KevinMarks: you actually need lat,long, radius of interest
[20:00] crysflame: danyel: yes
[20:01] crysflame: i'm okay with thinking in radians instead of decimal
[20:01] jbond: KM: we did this one, right?
[20:01] KevinMarks: (notice how all map views have a zoom slider)
[20:01] crysflame: (if that's of any help ;)
[20:01] KevinMarks: yeah
[20:01] KevinMarks: just reminding
[20:01] dviner: C: strings are hard to understand... so, let's talk about http.... 
[20:01] tengi: marksimpkins: NIH, perhaps?
[20:01] crysflame: what's the trig function that varies from 0.0 to 1.0 decimal from 0 degrees to 360 degrees?
[20:01] jbond: NIH?
[20:01] danyel: crys: i'd personally just interleave digits for X and Y position. (123, 456) -> (142536). At least it doesn't claim to be a distance...
[20:01] tengi: not invented here....
[20:01] marksimpkins: ah
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[20:01] KevinMarks: sin (d*4)
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[20:02] noidfish: is this channel logged anywhere?
[20:02] KevinMarks: why do you want a 1-d coordinate system?
[20:02] marksimpkins: at Diverse last year there where a number of STB's based on cheap PC boards and linux
[20:02] crysflame: okay. distance from the origin point as a floating point from the decimal point leftward, position on the sphere from zulu meridian as sin (d*4)
[20:03] crysflame: split on '.', reverse the left side, voila
[20:03] * crysflame cackles
[20:03] KevinMarks: silly
[20:03] Mutiny: another lovely day in san diego.
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[20:03] crysflame: that is all
[20:03] marksimpkins: ok, so the EPG is more important than the STB (or how it is defined)
[20:03] KevinMarks: what was the goal, chrys?
[20:03] KevinMarks: packed BAM is better
[20:03] striatic: noidfish: not that i know of
[20:03] jbond: arrg he's a bird watcher
[20:03] striatic: my client is logging it though so that's one place
[20:03] marksimpkins: :)
[20:04] tengi: isn't the guide where Tivo makes their money?
[20:04] marksimpkins: yep, EPGs are considered commercial data
[20:04] KevinMarks: BAM has neat proporties as it overflows corretcly in longitude
[20:04] jbond: Let Google do the guide
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[20:04] marksimpkins: access to the EPG on sky for example is very difficult and costly
[20:05] rossm: ah, san diego, at last
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[20:05] tengi: googleTV
[20:05] jbond: Hi Ross
[20:05] marksimpkins: hi ross
[20:05] jbond: Just arrived?
[20:05] crysflame: the goal was to find a solution given the limitations of the problem i posed myself
[20:05] tengi: didn't they start something already?
[20:05] rossm: hi julian, mark, just arrived, sitting in the lobby
[20:05] marksimpkins: so, they are talking about Azareus with RSS 
[20:05] jbond: you're late! ;)
[20:06] rossm: with all the attentions streaming all over, I haven't missed a thing
[20:06] Suw: KevinMarks: i'm off
[20:06] KevinMarks: you've been off for years...
[20:06] Suw: :-p
[20:06] jbond: smells a bit but a heart of gold
[20:06] marksimpkins: forget the STB, they are dissposible commodity
[20:06] Suw: but i showered only this morning! 
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[20:07] dviner: forget tivo ;)
[20:07] marksimpkins: IPTV, ummmm Hull
[20:07] jbond: that was then, this is now. ;) 
[20:07] tengi: an IP channel won't scale without an IP multicast infrastructure
[20:07] Suw: t'ra all. enjoy etech. 
[20:07] * Suw mutters something under her breath
[20:07] marksimpkins: bye
[20:07] jbond: bye bye
[20:07] Earthman: bye
[20:07] * Suw waves 
[20:07] Suw: see you all tomorrow
[20:07] cybaea: Bye suw
[20:07] Suw: t'ra cybaea :) 
[20:07] wseltzer: see you Suw
[20:07] jrnoded: night
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[20:08] Suw: wendy!! 
[20:08] tengi: IPTV - the webcam channel
[20:08] Suw: sorry to miss you - maybe catch you tomorrow
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[20:08] jbond: Need peercasting
[20:08] jbond: as used by the pr0n industry
[20:08] dviner: what's peercasting?
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[20:09] marksimpkins: and so back to pr0n leading the tecnology wave...
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[20:09] rossm: nice, someone is playing a piano next to me
[20:09] jbond: (Link: http://www.peercast.org/)http://www.peercast.org/
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[20:10] jbond: (Link: http://www.adultinternet.tv)http://www.adultinternet.tv
[20:10] ChrisDodo: the Tangible Computing slides are available at (Link: http://www.anti-mega.com/antimega/archives/001195.html)http://www.anti-mega.com/antimega/archives/001195.html
[20:10] marksimpkins: humm, not clicking on that one :)
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[20:11] rossm: the lobby piano player is playing Coldplay
[20:11] jbond: It's an internet pr0n TV channel. Using P2P multicasting so the bandwidth doesn't kill them.
[20:11] marksimpkins: cool